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	<title>Comments on: Is Talmud study the secret to Jewish success?</title>
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		<title>By: David Daniels</title>
		<link>http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>David Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2011 13:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for your comments, Joshua, and for the URLs to two excellent articles on this topic. I will enjoy reading them. 

You speak of &quot;intellectual Darwinism,&quot; in terms of Darwinism being an accepted truth. While I acknowledge that Darwinism is promoted as factual and beyond question, it is still a theory since it has never been proven. To date there is no clear, unassailable link between animals and humans.

The biblical account of Creation is far easier to embrace, since I believe in the existence of God, than the sheer chance involved in a Darwinian worldview. Intelligent design is a superior worldview to my way of thinking.

Thank you for contributing to the conversation - it is, for me, a fascinating one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comments, Joshua, and for the URLs to two excellent articles on this topic. I will enjoy reading them. </p>
<p>You speak of &#8220;intellectual Darwinism,&#8221; in terms of Darwinism being an accepted truth. While I acknowledge that Darwinism is promoted as factual and beyond question, it is still a theory since it has never been proven. To date there is no clear, unassailable link between animals and humans.</p>
<p>The biblical account of Creation is far easier to embrace, since I believe in the existence of God, than the sheer chance involved in a Darwinian worldview. Intelligent design is a superior worldview to my way of thinking.</p>
<p>Thank you for contributing to the conversation &#8211; it is, for me, a fascinating one.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-635</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 06:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is a theory (google ashkenazi intelligence) that Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence being on average 1 standard deviation above the norm is what leads to Jewish success in certain intellectual fields (not all). Now is this nature or nurture. There are arguments for both. The nurture argument as stated above is that emphasis on study be it talmud or secular works out the Jewish mind as Schwarzenegger worked out his muscles.
 Another theory went like this. For a long time especially in Europe where Jews were forced to live together and often couldn&#039;t find work so were often supported by the community by being scholars. Now not everyone was able to be a scholar and learn 3 languages at such young ages. Those who weren&#039;t able to handle it, so the theory goes, abandoned the religion. Those who were, were valued and had more opportunity to attract mates. The result was that to maintain your Judaism it was an exercise in intellectual Darwinism. Only the intellectually fit survived.
 The type of intellect verbal and mathematical intelligence but not spatial
ability was what study of Talmud and Torah dictated as being essential being that each is written in a different ancient language and not the spoken language. The medieval Jew had to be lettered in at least 3 languages in order to survive Jewishly.
 Further evidence that this is the case the study suggests is that Ashkenazi specific diseases such as Tay-Sachs which are genetic in nature are the result of a defect that also relates to intelligence.  For those interested the study is here:
http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/science/03gene.html

 I don&#039;t know if I believe all of that but thought it was interesting enough to consider in this discussion. 
 Not sure if I believe it but if true it would mean that studying talmud is a waste unless you find it interesting for its own sake. I have a feeling that if true another form of intellectual Darwinism is happening in the general population now. The world in general is becoming a place where only the very highly educated can prosper. Intellectually successful people tend to marry others like them. And perhaps this explains why IQ is on average getting higher in western nations.
Just some food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a theory (google ashkenazi intelligence) that Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence being on average 1 standard deviation above the norm is what leads to Jewish success in certain intellectual fields (not all). Now is this nature or nurture. There are arguments for both. The nurture argument as stated above is that emphasis on study be it talmud or secular works out the Jewish mind as Schwarzenegger worked out his muscles.<br />
 Another theory went like this. For a long time especially in Europe where Jews were forced to live together and often couldn&#8217;t find work so were often supported by the community by being scholars. Now not everyone was able to be a scholar and learn 3 languages at such young ages. Those who weren&#8217;t able to handle it, so the theory goes, abandoned the religion. Those who were, were valued and had more opportunity to attract mates. The result was that to maintain your Judaism it was an exercise in intellectual Darwinism. Only the intellectually fit survived.<br />
 The type of intellect verbal and mathematical intelligence but not spatial<br />
ability was what study of Talmud and Torah dictated as being essential being that each is written in a different ancient language and not the spoken language. The medieval Jew had to be lettered in at least 3 languages in order to survive Jewishly.<br />
 Further evidence that this is the case the study suggests is that Ashkenazi specific diseases such as Tay-Sachs which are genetic in nature are the result of a defect that also relates to intelligence.  For those interested the study is here:<br />
<a href="http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/science/03gene.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/science/03gene.html</a></p>
<p> I don&#8217;t know if I believe all of that but thought it was interesting enough to consider in this discussion.<br />
 Not sure if I believe it but if true it would mean that studying talmud is a waste unless you find it interesting for its own sake. I have a feeling that if true another form of intellectual Darwinism is happening in the general population now. The world in general is becoming a place where only the very highly educated can prosper. Intellectually successful people tend to marry others like them. And perhaps this explains why IQ is on average getting higher in western nations.<br />
Just some food for thought.</p>
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		<title>By: David Daniels</title>
		<link>http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>David Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 01:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for your comments, Euan.

I agree with you in seeing the &quot;intellectual rigour and equally, intellectual curiosity&quot; as resulting from the disciplined study and close reading of texts such as the Talmud, rather than the actual content of the Talmud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comments, Euan.</p>
<p>I agree with you in seeing the &#8220;intellectual rigour and equally, intellectual curiosity&#8221; as resulting from the disciplined study and close reading of texts such as the Talmud, rather than the actual content of the Talmud.</p>
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		<title>By: Euan</title>
		<link>http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-321</link>
		<dc:creator>Euan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-321</guid>
		<description>I suspect that Jewish intellectual prowess does have a great deal to do with the Talmud.  However, I would be sceptical about the substantive content of the Talmud having a huge amount to do with Jewish intellectual prowess; rather, I suspect it is the fostering of the discipline of study and close reading (perhaps as a consequence of religious conviction) that plays its part in giving many Jews that extra part of intellectual rigour and equally, intellectual curiosity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that Jewish intellectual prowess does have a great deal to do with the Talmud.  However, I would be sceptical about the substantive content of the Talmud having a huge amount to do with Jewish intellectual prowess; rather, I suspect it is the fostering of the discipline of study and close reading (perhaps as a consequence of religious conviction) that plays its part in giving many Jews that extra part of intellectual rigour and equally, intellectual curiosity.</p>
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		<title>By: David Daniels</title>
		<link>http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-296</link>
		<dc:creator>David Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 15:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-296</guid>
		<description>Phillip:

I think you make a valid point. 

Among religious Jews there is a great emphasis put upon Talmud study, and that has sigificant impact on the intellectual development of individuals. For the past 8 years I have been extensively involved with the Jewish community, and quite often with religiously observant Jews who would be involved in disciplined Talmud study.

But as you note, many (maybe most) Jewish scientists, philosophers, et. al. are secular, non practicing Jews. And they also place high priority on intellectual pursuit, which would, of course, result in significant intellectual prowess. 

Between the secular and the religious Jew, the common theme is devotion to study of whatever interests them - the point you make.

As an evangelical pastor (non-Jewish), and as one who has devoted a life-time to biblical, theological study of the Bible, I have more than a passing interest in the history of the Jewish people. While every ethnic group has those who excel, it is noteworthy that a high proportion of intellectual leaders in our world come from the Jewish community.

Thank you for reading and commenting on my post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phillip:</p>
<p>I think you make a valid point. </p>
<p>Among religious Jews there is a great emphasis put upon Talmud study, and that has sigificant impact on the intellectual development of individuals. For the past 8 years I have been extensively involved with the Jewish community, and quite often with religiously observant Jews who would be involved in disciplined Talmud study.</p>
<p>But as you note, many (maybe most) Jewish scientists, philosophers, et. al. are secular, non practicing Jews. And they also place high priority on intellectual pursuit, which would, of course, result in significant intellectual prowess. </p>
<p>Between the secular and the religious Jew, the common theme is devotion to study of whatever interests them &#8211; the point you make.</p>
<p>As an evangelical pastor (non-Jewish), and as one who has devoted a life-time to biblical, theological study of the Bible, I have more than a passing interest in the history of the Jewish people. While every ethnic group has those who excel, it is noteworthy that a high proportion of intellectual leaders in our world come from the Jewish community.</p>
<p>Thank you for reading and commenting on my post.</p>
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		<title>By: phillip</title>
		<link>http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>phillip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 06:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-295</guid>
		<description>Perhaps not. 

If you look at the biography of these jewish scientists, you notice that a significant many of them are no practicing jews. They could not have study the talmud!  My explanation is the following. The talmud becomes not just the certain of a religious jew, and but the  secular jew as well ! When a jew child see his elder, and community study long hours, and value of the community is focus on intellectual pursuit, then it is not surprise they would devote themselves to study whatever that interest them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps not. </p>
<p>If you look at the biography of these jewish scientists, you notice that a significant many of them are no practicing jews. They could not have study the talmud!  My explanation is the following. The talmud becomes not just the certain of a religious jew, and but the  secular jew as well ! When a jew child see his elder, and community study long hours, and value of the community is focus on intellectual pursuit, then it is not surprise they would devote themselves to study whatever that interest them.</p>
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		<title>By: David Daniels</title>
		<link>http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator>David Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 16:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kim,

There are many Christians who view the Jewish people as superior to others, but that is not what I do, nor was that my point in the review.

It is a fact that, given the worldwide Jewish population (around 15,000,000), a disporportionate number of Nobel Peace Prize winners turn out to be Jewish.

They are not instrinsically superior, but a very large number of them are very bright. Some believe this is the result of the discipline of study &amp; reasoning that comes from years of work in learning Talmud.

Thanks for reading my blog, and for taking time to comment.

David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim,</p>
<p>There are many Christians who view the Jewish people as superior to others, but that is not what I do, nor was that my point in the review.</p>
<p>It is a fact that, given the worldwide Jewish population (around 15,000,000), a disporportionate number of Nobel Peace Prize winners turn out to be Jewish.</p>
<p>They are not instrinsically superior, but a very large number of them are very bright. Some believe this is the result of the discipline of study &amp; reasoning that comes from years of work in learning Talmud.</p>
<p>Thanks for reading my blog, and for taking time to comment.</p>
<p>David</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisereader.com/2010/02/is-talmud-study-the-secret-to-jewish-success/#comment-265</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t get why some Christian always try to set up the Jewish people as superior to other ethnicities especially since in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t get why some Christian always try to set up the Jewish people as superior to other ethnicities especially since in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.</p>
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